Posts by Change Name

29

Anti-JW Cult: Why did you enslave yourself to new doctrines without fully investigating their validity first?

by Change Name in

i saw this on yahoo answers and wondered about your reaction to it.. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=asztevcfhe4rumq8w.94glxq1kix;_ylv=3?qid=20130226115907aalqjsp.

here are some of your deceptive doctrines:.

russell was a freemason & pyramidologist.

Change Name

I saw this on Yahoo Answers and wondered about your reaction to it.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AszTevcfHe4RUMQ8w.94GlXq1KIX;_ylv=3?qid=20130226115907AAlQJSP

Here are some of your deceptive doctrines:

1 - C.T. Russell was a Freemason & Pyramidologist
This is false. Both he & the Masons deny his membership, & they are known to freely admit all their former members. The cross & crown symbol isn't Masonic, but was & still is used by a number of Protestant sects. The Masons borrowed it from them. The Masonic lodge across the street from the Bethel graveyard was built in the 1990's & isn't on the same property. Russell isn't buried under a pyramid, but has a normal headstone. The pyramid monument is a directory for those buried in the lot. The theory that the pyramid of Giza was prophetic wasn't Russell's idea, & he didn't do any direct research on it. It was written about by several authors of his time, & in the one chapter of one book that Russell talked alot about it, he made extensive use of direct copies from these other authors, giving them due credit.

2 - The Watchtower Society joined the United Nations
Again, a lie. The agreement they signed in the early '90s clearly stated that this did not make them a member of the UN, & it allowed them to have access to the UN's research materials. A few years later, the UN changed it's requirements for NGO's, (Non-Government Organizations), wanting them to be more politically involved, & soon after the WTS resigned.

3 - Johannas Grieber, priest & spiritist, translated the New World Translation
Absurd. In HIS translation, he translated TWO, count them TWO verses in a similar way, & the WTS quoted these 2 verses in the past as support for the way they chose to render them. (Which a number of other translations did too, by the way.)

4 - JW's are false prophets
Twisted. JW's have never originated prophecies, they've merely tried to interpret PRE-EXISTING prophecies found in the Bible, most with accuracy, some without. From the absolute beginning, even before any so-called 'failures', they've denied being inspired prophets, but only 'prophets' in the sense some Bible verses use, that of proclaiming or preaching, rather than predicting.

5 - They protect child-abusers
A cheap attempt to draw peoples anger at the expence of a horrible crime. A little research reveals that JW's have the strongest abuse policies in the whole religious community & victims are not hindered from doing everything legally possible. ( A fascinating expose of this can be found at www.thirdwitness.com .)

The list goes on & on . . .

Did you learn anything new? Be honest. How concerned with truth are you really?"

What is your reaction?

41

w92 7/15: "It is the obligation of all JWs to hate apostates"

by cedars in

today i was doing some research for a new article, and i came across the following quote which succeeded in raising my eyebrows.... "the obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates.

our attitude toward apostates should be that of david, who declared: 'do i not hate those who are intensely hating you, o jehovah, and do i not feel a loathing for those revolting against you?

with a complete hatred i do hate them.

Change Name

"The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: 'Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.'

Are you saying it is wrong to hate lawlessness and the activities of apostates?

Context... all of it.

"Jesus’ counsel to love one’s enemies is in full harmony with the spirit of the Hebrew Scriptures. (Mt 5:44) Faithful Job recognized that any feeling of malicious joy over the calamity of one intensely hating him would have been wrong. (Job 31:29) The Mosaic Law enjoined upon the Israelites the responsibility to come to the aid of other Israelites whom they might view as their enemies. (Ex 23:4, 5) Instead of rejoicing over the disaster of an enemy, God’s servants are instructed: “If the one hating you is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.”—Pr 24:17, 18; 25:21."

"In true loyalty to Jehovah, his servants hate what and whom he hates. (2Ch 19:2) “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” (Ps 139:21, 22) But this hate does not seek to inflict injury on others and is not synonymous with spite or malice. Rather,it finds expression in its utter abhorrence of what is wicked, avoiding what is bad and those intensely hating Jehovah. (Ro 12:9, 17, 19) Christians rightly hate those who are confirmed enemies of God, such as the Devil and his demons, as well as men who have deliberately and knowingly taken their stand against Jehovah."

17

Watchtower Cult Shuts Down Websites To Coverup Pedophilia Letters

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

watchtower cult shuts down websites to coverup pedophilia letters.. http://www.cyberwarzone.com/watchtower-cult-shuts-down-websites-coverup-pedophilia-letters.

.

bangalore.

Change Name

Hi there

Are people so bent on "exposing" Jehovah's Witnesses that they cannot see the dishonestly of that article you posted?

"Just when you thought it was safe to call watchtower a done deal it seems watchtower is going on a mission to tell the body of elders in a series of letters to basically cover up any illegal activity within the organization and then tell the elders to destroy the letters once they have read them."

What does this mean? What does this person mean when he thought it was "safe to call Watchtower a done deal"? Why does this person claim that the WTBTS covers up illegal activity by telling the elders to destroy the letters once they have read them. Where is the cover up? This person is being rather dishonest in his approach to the JWs.

This person does quote the letter below here

“1. This letter updates the letters to all bodies of elders regarding child abuse dated March 23, 1992; February 3, 1993; August 1, 1995; March 14, 1997; July 20, 1998; May 24, 2002; April 1, 2004; June 5, 2006; and May 24, 2010. Those letters should be removed from the congregation permanent file of policy letters and be destroyed. No one should keep originals or copies of any of those letters.”

Obviously telling someone to destroy a document regarding Child Abuse is not only suspicious but illegal.

Can't people see that this person is being dishonest by making a statement like this? The new letter updates all the listed letters regarding how to hand a child abuse situation within the congregation. There is nothing illegal or suspicious about destroying the older letters. But this person directs the reader to make an assumption that the elders are destroying letters that implicate others in the congregation of child molestation.

Again the purpose of this statement is to lead the reader to believe the JW's are talking about a 17 year old and a 45 year old. The JW's are talking about teenagers, not young children. Teenagers 17, 18, 19...

Now lets move on to the next brilliant watchtower letter telling elders how to hide or manage digital information that may have illegal or legally sensitive information.

“What should never be stored online? Any information of a sensitive or confidential nature, including judicial matters, should not be stored online or be distributed electronically. The same is true for documents already available on the jw.org Web site.”

This is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Some JW congregations use the web to store their documents. I am assuming these documents are sensitive in nature like accounts and personal information about the people in the congregation. Why would anybody want to make this type of information accessable to the public? Again, dishonestly the author leads the reader to believe that this information is illegal.

And you people want me to believe your accusations against Jehovah's Witnesses with garbage like that?

But wait it gets better. According to the watchtower the document is saying in black and white that basically, it is not child molestation, as long as the person is approaching adulthood and is a willing participant. The reality is Children are not capable of making adult sexual decisions with an adult.

“In harmony with these references, we are herein discussing sexual perversion in which children are the object of sexual abuse, including fondling, by an adult. We are not discussing a situation wherein a minor who is a willing participant and who is approaching adulthood has sexual relations with an adult who is a few years older than the minor nor, generally speaking, are we discussing situations in which only minors are involved. Rather, we are referring to situations in which it is established that an adult brother or sister has been guilty of sexually abusing a young child or has been sexually involved with a minor who is approaching adulthood and who was not a willing participant.”

44

jw's view of wordly people - hipocrisy

by spirituk in

jw
friends

i was wondering how a baptised jw see wordly people?

i mean what do they think of people who arent jw ?

do they think we will die forever and that we are controlled by satan?

Change Name

Hi spirituk

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that bad association spoils useful habits. 1 Corinthians 15:33

"Worldly people" are people who are not Christians.

The kindest, honest and most loving person, if they kept the wrong type of assocation, can fall. I have seen it happen. We are human and want to feel accepted by the people we hang around so we do the things they do in order to be included.

Jehovah's Witnesses warn that if you hang around people who do not have the same standards and morals you will become like those you associate with. Since I have been associating with Jehovah's Witnesses, my standards and morals have risen. I am more aware of what is happening around me. From a personal testimony, this is true. Good association creates useful habits.

From my experience, what Caleb says is wrong. The elders will not disfellowship your friend because she hangs out with "worldly friends" and frequents the club scene. What they will do is warn her that this type of association is not very useful to her Christianity, show her some scriptures supporting the Bible's viewpoint and let her make up her own mind. Christian must choose to obey Jesus. We cannot be forced to do so.

There is a Young People Ask... What about Youth Dance Clubs article for anybody interesting in broadening their knowledge.

123

New here

by Change Name in

i had been studying with the jehovah's witnesses for the last couple years.

they have been interesting study sessions and have learned quite a bit about them and their beliefs.

much of what they teach is what i had learned through personal bible study.. growing up was normal.

Change Name

wow... I answered many of your responses... it took me a bit of time too since I was doing other things at the same and the website asked me to re-enter my login and password..... not a big deal, cut and paste my answer to another answer.... and Mozilla will not let me cut/paste...

well, don't have the time tonight now to do it again....

Sorry

123

New here

by Change Name in

i had been studying with the jehovah's witnesses for the last couple years.

they have been interesting study sessions and have learned quite a bit about them and their beliefs.

much of what they teach is what i had learned through personal bible study.. growing up was normal.

Change Name

"Outlaw"

Any association between the UN and the JWs is indefensible. From the perspective of the JWs, the the relationship they had was that they had a "library card". I have a library card from my local library. How much of a relationship do I have with local government? I know you will refuse to see things from my perspective. That is fine. That is your right to close your eyes and bury your heard.

"unstopableravens"

Seriously? A Ravens fan? OKay, you might be on the right track. My team, the Chargers, are experincing coaching issues for the last few years. Harbaugh is an awesome coach.

Before I started studying with the Witnesses, I studied on my own for many years. I did not have any outside influences such as church or kingdom hall preaching from the pulpit. I came up with a different understanding than you. Jesus is not YHWH and hellfire is not found in the Bible.

"whahappened"

From my observation, they would be considered a cult according to the standards of this world. But then so would the cults of Jesus and Moses.

"undercover"

That was my first post on this forum.

"sd-7"

From my understanding, the prerequisits for being an NGO changed after they were accepted and when they found out you have to run through some hoops they did not feel comfortable running so they did not renew the library card. Simple.

Have I made up my mind? I may have after reading both sides of the issue. Those who oppose the JWs will never say a good thing about them. JWs will make the most innocent of mistakes and the opposers will jump on it like a zombie attacking a human making the mistake the biggest thing since Ted Haggards homosexual liasons.

"jwfacts"

I started to read your link and them stopped when you started to lead your reader to agree with your perspective. That was the very first paragraph. When you read something like "should quickly alert readers that the quality of information is poor, filled with its falallcies and common techniques used to mislead..." you know that it is full of doggie doo doo. I stopped reading. Your style of writing is like reading a tabloid magazine.

"mindblown"

You also oppose JWs as well. You think you only opppose the GB, WT, but you know you want to do harm to your former brothers and sisters too, huh?

"MrsJones"

I think you need to read my full OP, not just skim through it. I did not judge anybody. I judged the information most opposers of JWs have about them to be very biased.

"problematic"

I do not know what the scope of knowledge is in regards to the NGO status, but the ones I have discussed it will know about it. It appeared to me that nobody was not aware of this issue.

Now on to work.... will be back at a later time

Change of the Name!

123

New here

by Change Name in

i had been studying with the jehovah's witnesses for the last couple years.

they have been interesting study sessions and have learned quite a bit about them and their beliefs.

much of what they teach is what i had learned through personal bible study.. growing up was normal.

Change Name

Hi again

wow... 60 replies and many of them unflattering. Let me comment on a few of them

"Christ Alone"

I appreciate your post. I am sure many here will disagree with my observations that JWs are normal and that opposers are those who try and stumble JWs any way possible. I have observed just that. Those who oppose Jehovah's Witnesses will do and say anything to stumble them.

I am sure that most of you people were Jehovah's Witnesses. So were King's Saul and Solomon. I will not discount anything you might have to say but when I find something you say does not ring true, I will call you on it.

I am sure that you love Jehovah's Witnesses. What is not to love about them? They are generally a kind and loving people. They do their best to take after their lord Jesus. I have my opinions on why people are stumbled by the Jehovah's Witnesses and will comment on them when the time comes. There are many like you who believe that the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses are abnormal. I will agree with you. They are abnormal when you compare them to this world and its spirit. The trend in Christian America is to not take the Bible as truth and to pick and choose what you want to believe.

When you dedicated your lives to Jehovah, what did you expect? What truth did you want to know about the human organization of Jehovah's Witnesses? That they were imperfect people trying their best to help one another in worshiping Jehovah? I have read both versions of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses. What should they have told you to deter you from become a Christian?

"jgnat"

My wife is Catholic. I was Baptist. I have no love for the Catholic church with their many disgusting acts since their inception in the 4th century. At the start of my study with them we just talked about current events and how they relate to where we are at in God's plans for humankind. We did not break out the Bible Teach book until a few weeks later. Let me reinterate. Before I studied with the Witnesses I had many beliefs I found out for myself. I was pleasantly surprised that many of what I came to know as truths the Jehovah's Witnesses already taught.

"MrsJones"

Please, keep on judging my integrity. Maybe I will teach you something.

"Stealth"

I seriously doubt that. I have observed them "love bombing" each other on a regular basis. I am not much of a hugger but it gladdens my heart each time I want them greet one another.

"Black Sheep"

Yes, that is the issue. I do not oppose them. I am married to a Catholic and my three children are agostic, born again Christian and an atheist. We have some real good discussions about religion and ethics when we all get together.

"Witness My Fury"

My handle is Change Name. I have used this handle for a very long time.

"John Mann"

Maybe one day.

"Tater"

It is your view that they please a publishing company. Your view demonizes them so your beliefs are validated. No. Am not "Ethos".

"Sauerkraut"

No, I have not been baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. That is why I am here. I need to make sure that this is Christianity. My experience is abundant but it is not with the Witnesses.

"James Wood"

Seriously, me a troll? Nope. But I did see you just troll me. Oh, check out this you tube commentary about JWs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

"Pterist"

I understand their teaching in regards the mediatorship of Jesus. The real question is if you do. From what I have read from opposers of JWs many do not.

"baltar"

I am sure you did grow up around JWs. Humankind is corrupt. Why would the JWs be any different? Going into it with that in mind makes things a bit easier to swallow.

"Kevun"

I do not believe you are born again. I know many who claim to be born again but do not believe them to be so. I have met a couple of the annointed of Jehovah's Witnesses. Nobody who claims to be born again measures up to the humbleness of the annointed I have met. Could it be that you are draw to the Jehovah's Witnesses because you secretly believe them to have the closest thing to truth?

"Isaacaustin"

Please keep on falsely accusing me...

Let me talk down to you and explain this "service in the ministry". It is when I take my time and go out from door to door in service of God and minister to those who are looking for him. ;)

"Bluesbrother"

Yes, they are very good people and I have enjoyed being around them. They are pleasant and courteous. I do understand why you miss their association. I have looked into the dates of 607, 2520 and 1914. What exactly do you want to point out to me?

I have also looked into what opposers call "false prophesies". I have not read a real prophesy from them in order to call them false prophets. Maybe we can look deeper into this on another topic.

"sickandtired"

I am not turned off by their stands on blood and shunning. It is why I did not listen to them over the last 30 years. Not until I actually looked into it and saw what the Bible had to say about it did I come to understand what they taught in regards to these issues. Do they need to change these doctrines? Those who leave seem to think so... The JWs themselves do not.

"undercover"

sticks and stones buddy

"problematic"

Their former status as an NGO is a simple issue. The vast majority of JWs were not stumbled when this came to light. When I chatted with my study conductor about this he explained it quite well. A library card. Simple explanation.

I am not a baptised Jehovah's Witness. I have to make sure they are Christianity. Long ago I dedicated my life to Jesus and his God YHWH, long before I started studying with the Witnesses. My baptism as a Baptist I do not find acceptable. That is why I am here. I have heard this is the place that has the most hatred for everything the JWs stand for. You will either convince me that the JWs do not hold truth or that you will convince me and I will ask to be baptized as one of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses.

I am tired of writing.... I will repond tomorrow...

Change of the Name!

123

New here

by Change Name in

i had been studying with the jehovah's witnesses for the last couple years.

they have been interesting study sessions and have learned quite a bit about them and their beliefs.

much of what they teach is what i had learned through personal bible study.. growing up was normal.

Change Name

Hi again

I have read articles from both sides of the issue. The opposers claims are rediculous. Only a government can join the UN.

http://www.jehovahsjudgement.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/ has the best explanation about the JWs involvement with the UN as a NGO.

Most opposers of JWs I know of will close their eyes and not accept the facts... it is sad indeed.

9

How Would "Who Is Candace Conti" Bumper-stickers go over?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

you think if i had a few hundred made up and passed them out, would we throw some attention in the "court of public opinion" on this topic?.

i am confounded how many jws don't know anything about the pedophile issues plaguing the watchtower society!

is this a stupid idea or waste of money?

Change Name

Hi there

I think it would be in poor taste.

Would you endorse a bumper stick that would say "Who is Mark Allen Green?" or any number of other pedophile priests and pastors in the world?

123

New here

by Change Name in

i had been studying with the jehovah's witnesses for the last couple years.

they have been interesting study sessions and have learned quite a bit about them and their beliefs.

much of what they teach is what i had learned through personal bible study.. growing up was normal.

Change Name

Hi all

I had been studying with the Jehovah's Witnesses for the last couple years. They have been interesting study sessions and have learned quite a bit about them and their beliefs. Much of what they teach is what I had learned through personal Bible study.

Growing up was normal. I was raised by Christian parents and did the whole Christian thing. I could not buy into the concept of the trinity and hellfire so about the age of 17 I started reading the Bible on my own without any outside influences. The stories were nice and the sermons helped me think about my Christianity but I could not fully endorse that God was three people in one. We had arguments at our Bible readings about the name of God and finally was asked not to come back because I was disruptive. Nobody bothered to even to check on me. I eventually moved away to college and never went back. I have not stepped into a place of God since then. I did not like organized religion of any sort until.... I debated and had discussions with "Christians", "Muslims" and others via BBS's and then the internet. I was an outsider. Many called me a cult and that I will be go to hell for my beliefs. Since I found out the real truth about hell and torment these comments did not bother me.

I did not start to study with the Witnesses until I was 42. To tell you the truth, I dodged them all these years. I had one person come to the door on a regular basis but I never listened to him. From what I knew from outside sources they expelled and shunned people and would not use blood to save the lives of themselves or family. They did not interest me.

I had been noticing the change of people in the last 10 years and also how natural disasters have increased in size and capacity of destruction as well. Then the fellow came to my door and we had a lengthy discussion about this. I started studying with them and started attending the Sunday talk and WT study along with their weekday meetings. I also started talking to those who oppose them and started comparing their complaints to what I have observed. I also have read much of what the opposers will foist upon the unsuspecting reader. This has been two years in the making. My weekly Bible study has ended and recently I have stopped attending the meetings and the service in the ministry to see what would happen. It has been two months. So far I have had a couple elders swing by with encouraging words a few times. Nothing bad has happened.

What have I found? The JWs are normal people doing their best to please Jehovah. The opposers are normal people trying their best to stumble the JWs any way they can.

I will give an example of my findings another time since this is the "Personal Experience" forum. But a little bit food for though is the accusation that the WT joined the UN. Even an outsider like me can read through the blather that the opposers produce in regards to this.